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Autor Thema: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0  (Gelesen 7598 mal)

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Riothamus

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Re: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0
« Antwort #30 am: 17. Januar 2021 - 14:12:24 »

Allerdings kostet Fragen nichts. Du könntest den Rechteinhaber ja danach fragen. Auch wenn sie es ablehnen, kann so etwas durchaus einen Nachdruck anregen.
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Riothamus

Maréchal Davout

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Re: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0
« Antwort #31 am: 17. Januar 2021 - 16:24:31 »

Das ist eine heikle Frage.
Die Urheberrechte liegen sowieso bei Sam Mustafa. Er hat die Rechte zur Vervielfätigung und dem Vertrieb verkauft.
Dazu gehören auch Übersetzungen.

Danke dafür. Aber wie bekomme ich denn raus, wer der aktuelle Rechteinhaber ist. Ich hatte vor langem Sam Mustafa mal angeschrieben wegen was anderem zu Grande Armee, da winkte er aber nur ab von wegen, verkauft, nicht mein Bier!

Allerdings kostet Fragen nichts. Du könntest den Rechteinhaber ja danach fragen. Auch wenn sie es ablehnen, kann so etwas durchaus einen Nachdruck anregen.

Sehe ich auch so, aber wen müsste ich fragen?
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Riothamus

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Re: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0
« Antwort #32 am: 17. Januar 2021 - 17:20:31 »

Wo ist es denn zuletzt erschienen? Der Verlag sollte Auskunft geben können, es gibt auch Länder, in denen er das muss. Das ist also keine ungewöhnliche Frage. Wenn sie nicht antworten, kannst du Sam Mustafa ja nochmal anschreiben, um nach dem Käufer zu fragen.
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Riothamus

Maréchal Davout

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Re: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0
« Antwort #33 am: 17. Januar 2021 - 19:05:59 »

Habe es im Wargame Vault von Scale Creep Miniatures gefunden. Habe nochmal in meiner Korrespondenz mit Sam geschaut und an die hatte er es auch verkauft: https://www.wargamevault.com/browse/pub/15596/Scale-Creep-Miniatures.
Die müsste ich also fragen, ob ich eine deutsche Übersetzung machen darf... :)
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Darkfire

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Re: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0
« Antwort #34 am: 17. Januar 2021 - 20:40:54 »

Leondegrande, das meine ich ja. Grundsätzlich habe ich aber den Eindruck, dass man eher Spieler für Black Powder finden wird, als für Lasalle. Zumal Sam Mustafa mit Blücher für die napoleonische Epoche direkt zwei Regelwerke herausgebracht hat.

La Grande Armée, mein Hauptsystem, ist das erste und für mich beste napoleonische Spiel von Sam Mustafa, also schon drei - allerdings hat er die Rechte verkauft und aktuell wird es wohl nicht mehr vertrieben (?).
Er schreibt sehr klare, gute Regeln, die spieltechnisch funktionieren und auch historisch stimmig sind (sein Hintergrund als Historiker wurde ja schon angesprochen). Spielberichte und viele Regelerklärungen zu meinem GA findet man hier: https://sweetwater-forum.net/index.php/topic,13957.2715.html

Frage an alle zu La Grande Armée: Wenn das Spiel wirklich nicht mehr vertrieben wird, was wird dann mit den Verbreitungsrechten? Dürfte ich es übersetzen ins Deutsche und dann verteilen? Verkaufen wohl nicht ohne Zustimmung des Rechteinhabers (zuletzt konnte man es wohl bei boardgamegeek kaufen: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/18205/grand-armee-great-battles-napoleonic-wars-miniatur)

Dachte, das sei allgemein bekannt...Grande Armee gibt es von Scale Creep als PDF über Wargames Vault:
https://www.wargamevault.com/product/290284/Grande-Armee

Und gedruckt z.B. übers Battlefield:
https://shop.battlefield-berlin.de/katalog/artikelinfo/33887/grande-armee-_napoleonic-rules

Ich würde da auf jeden Fall die Finge von lassen...oder mal bei Scale Creep anfragen, ob sie eine deutsche Übersetzung backen würden.

Hat sich mit Deimen Post überschnitten
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D.J.

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Re: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0
« Antwort #35 am: 18. Januar 2021 - 06:17:42 »

Die müsste ich also fragen, ob ich eine deutsche Übersetzung machen darf... :)

Japp, fragen kostet ja nix :)
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Leondegrande

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Re: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0
« Antwort #36 am: 22. Januar 2021 - 23:49:17 »

Laut Sam Mustafa werden die Bücher schon gedruckt, nachdem er die nochmalige Korrektur abgegeben hat die Woche. Kann also nicht mehr lange dauern..... :)
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Leondegrande

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Re: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0
« Antwort #37 am: 26. Januar 2021 - 16:17:32 »

Laut Sam bei Facebook: Ab Tag 1 gibt es auf der Honour Seite das Regelbuch, die PDF Datei des Regelbuches und ein Bundle aus beidem zu kaufen.

(kein langes Warten auf die Post also :))
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Darkfire

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Re: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0
« Antwort #38 am: 26. Januar 2021 - 17:36:55 »

War bei den letzten Regelwerken immer so....
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Maurice: Schlacht bei Höchstädt, Kampf um Lutzingen 28mm

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Leondegrande

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Re: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0
« Antwort #39 am: 26. Januar 2021 - 17:56:25 »

Auch zeitgleich am ersten Tag? Hatte das so in Erinnerung, dass die PDFs immer stark zeitversetzt rauskamen, manchmal erst Jahre später.
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Darkfire

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Re: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0
« Antwort #40 am: 26. Januar 2021 - 20:56:38 »

Auch zeitgleich am ersten Tag? Hatte das so in Erinnerung, dass die PDFs immer stark zeitversetzt rauskamen, manchmal erst Jahre später.

Nö, falsch erinnert, bei Maurice, Longstreet und Blücher gabs das PDF gleich...Aurelian und Freejumper kamen nur als PDF raus. Bei Rommel weiß ich es nicht (nicht meine Baustelle). Nur Lasalle und Might and Reason (und jetzt Grande Armee) gabs die PDF erst später, bei Lasalle sogar eine Version mit eingearbeitetem Errata und FAQ (was dann leider das Spielen mit einem "Hardcopybesitzer" etwas erschwerte)

Also ganz normal halt.
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Maurice: Schlacht bei Höchstädt, Kampf um Lutzingen 28mm

Kurfürstlich bayerische Armee Ari 100% Inf 20%, Kav 10%

Kampangne Maurice 15mm

Katalanische Armee:Ari 100% Inf 70% Kav 50%

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Leondegrande

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Re: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0
« Antwort #41 am: 09. Februar 2021 - 19:25:44 »

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Leondegrande

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Re: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0
« Antwort #42 am: 09. Februar 2021 - 19:40:59 »

Habs, pdf kostet 16,47€, man kann mit PayPal zahlen und bekommt sofort den Download Link per Mail :) *happy*

Buch kaufe ich mir dann später.
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Leondegrande

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Re: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0
« Antwort #43 am: 10. Februar 2021 - 18:46:30 »

David Brown, einer der Playtester, hat ein ausführliches Review bei facebook zu L2 geschrieben, ich fand es ganz informativ, deshalb hier mal zitiert:

Zitat
Lasalle –II  Some longer opinions, a ‘review’ if you like
Sam Mustafa’s Lasalle-II Napoleonic rules continue the broad scope of the first edition in that players use the ‘wargame-standard’ 12-20 units – in this case being battalions of infantry, regiments of cavalry and companies/batteries of guns.
Units are four bases of foot or cav, two of guns and are arranged to show specific formations; line, column square and so on. Units are organised into roughly three to six brigades – so call it a division or a small corps in scope.  A standard game is expected to be of about three hours’ play.
For people familiar with Sam’s other rules; L2 draws inspiration from the first edition, Blucher and Maurice – but includes various new and clever mechanisms.
Everybody will want to jump to the conclusion – is it any good?  I’ll colour an answer to that with the disclaimer that my club-mates and I have been play-testers.
Yes, it’s a superb set of rules.
Our gang has over the past year or so tried and abandoned some of the recent new sets of rules (round up the usual suspects) aimed at a similar scope – but we kept playing L2 and are building new armies for it.
Firstly, the rules are spectacularly well presented and organised with diagrams as needed to explain concepts.
As with Sam’s other rules, factors and chrome are reduced to the bare minimum. This means we are playing from memory with the occasional glance at the QRS or even rarer check of the full text.
For our gang this is desirable. We have limited time on club nights and many play a variety of games across different genres – so rules with a high barrier to learn or play are marked down.
Having said that; we have tested L2 as large 4-6 player games and half-day historical re-fights and they work well in those settings too. An Advanced section of the rules has guidance for such larger games.
The lack of granularity may not be everybody’s cup of tea, and as playtesters we were pests in suggesting some more here and there.  I won’t re-prosecute them here other than to say the rules are streamlined enough that bolting on house rules is pretty easy if you enjoy experimenting with such things.
The rules are fun to play.
The major departures from the first edition are key strengths of L2.  Firstly there is a command system and it uses PIPs (a random total but within a pretty tight band) to limit options and thus generate player choices.
Secondly, the sequence of play is ‘flexible’. Players can issue a series of ‘Orders’ being; Moves (includes charges), Volley fire (includes canister), artillery Bombard, Formation changes and Rally (attempt to repair hits).
These Orders cost mostly one pip, called ‘Mo’ for momentum, but sometimes two or more Mo depending on a small number of factors that you soon memorise, some can be done by a brigade, or some by the whole army, for the same Mo.  Units stranded from friends will need individual Mo.
The ‘flexible’ sequence is that you issue Orders in any sequence you like, however each unit can perform each Order only once per turn.  The sequence of play is also ‘interleaved’ in that performing an Order with troops ‘near’ the enemy (roughly musketry range) causes you to surrender play to the other side.
Thus if I spend a Mo and volley at you, I have offered up an ‘Interrupt’ and you can now shoot back, charge or something else.  Depending on what you do, you might now surrender play back to me, and so, on until we both run out of Mo.
This system of Mo and Orders/sequence of play makes the rules great fun.  You have a stream of decision points for players and it generates historical conundrums – if the other side has advanced boldly with cavalry how late can I wait to form square, and will the other guy have Mo left to clobber my squares with his guns?
In confused late stages of battles you can’t do everything and sometimes troops get caught in the wrong place or in a poor formation.
As a hint, if you’re active and can spend a lot of Mo before the other guy gets to interrupt – it’s a good idea to pass leaving one or two in the bank.  You’ll find out why. If players both pass in sequence the turn is over and Mo refreshed.
The system of Mo / Orders also binds other strands of the rules.  If there was too much chrome elsewhere it would be a grind to work through Orders and turns.  And the minimal granularity could be bland without the excitement generated by the decision points.
Another superb rule is the Rally order.  It might sound strange to single out a particular rule in a broad-brush review but this one is deceptively simple and important.
Units have 7-5 ‘hits strength’ (2 if arty) which are lost in combat or when shot at. Lose all hits and the unit is destroyed / lifted / dead.  The Rally order means you try to bring back hits, dicing for each - however any that fail now become permanent hits that you can’t repair.
This mechanism sets up several things; decisions points about when to Rally (remembering that it costs Mo and may surrender play to the other side) a risk vs reward puzzle – do you want to advance cautiously Rallying frequently to husband troops’ strength or do you concede strength in a bold attack or to gain position knowing you might have a chance to rally later.
It also drives a game ‘story’ and action – those units you relied on to hold a hill just blundered a Rally and are crippled, routing as the enemy now charges them.  The conscripts in square holding the end of the enemy line has been battered by horse artillery but the buggers just heroically Rallied off all their hits and will take more time to shift.
For a quick précis, shooting is bucket of dice hits-and-saves, while close combat is a suitably bracing DBx-style single dice throw.  Two-on-one melee gang ups provide a small sometimes important but not overwhelming advantage.
Troop moves are really free-form without requiring protractors and so on – just push the figs and have no point exceed its move distance.  Charges get up to a 45 deg pivot at the start and then go straight ahead.
Skirmishers
There are many ways table-top rules attempt to reflect skirmishers and all have strengths and weaknesses.
L2 has a standard system and an Advanced option.  The standard system is abstracted to a contest of dice throws the winner of which is assumed to have a dominant skirmisher line and gains extra Mo to use this turn.  The number of dice depends on troops’ skirmish rating and sometimes current formation.
The Advanced rule has more detail about tracing lines of skirmish to and from units and uses a system of markers to show which enemy are being hassled by skirmishers and how this is computed.
During play-testing the Skirmisher / Mo system was investigated, destroyed and rebuilt many, many, times with all manor of exotic options contemplated.
What you might find odd.
The rules have no morale tests at the unit or brigade level other than losing all of a brigade reduces your Mo quantum.
There is no emergency response to charges – plan ahead.  Albeit there is a start-of-bound emergency intervention option for generals to command localised formation changes.
Brigade generals are not represented on table and the supreme general only positioned this bound if he does an emergency intervention as above.  A frustrating point in the first edition was tracking all the generals and their various potential values – L2 has one general and only has characteristics as an optional Advanced rule.
There are no routs or retires – the point of contact is pretty static.  Nominally routed units are put back in the box – if you want units to advance or retire in response to combat the design philosophy is to do it yourself with Mo.  Look up the Huzzar! Rule at your leisure.
Squares not being at a disadvantage in close combat (but they are easier shooting targets) might raise eyebrows, but they can’t charge and the asymmetrical combat outcomes means you always want to be the charger in infantry clashes.
Some players have queried the balance between infantry shooting and melee – my experience is that individual games tend to emphasise either based on the tactical situation.  It may be that there is a sweet-spot for particular armies or some optimal time spent shooting before charging, if so I don’t know what it is.
Troop / Army Balance
We have played armies of both crap and small elite forces, I can’t honestly yet tell if the rules tilt a particular way especially if you’re playing some of the provided scenarios.  I’ve had my home-bake Persians with a fair bulk of poor troops swept away or sometime swarm over the enemy.
Turks with a blizzard of modest cavalry can swamp an enemy or just be shot to oblivion, advancing into the teeth of an army maximising grand batteries is character building and educative.
If driven properly your elite troops will perform much better than the levy but there’s enough overlap in probabilities to add uncertainty and fun.
Army Lists / composition
The army lists are a free download on Sam’s page. Armies are 1805+ in Europe but there are Advanced rules to cater for earlier ancen regime armies and an open-source points system to build non-standard troops.
There is a deal of design philosophy to contemplate in army building.  There is an invitation to negotiate with your playing group about how permissive you want to be with allied troops and flexibility about particular troops appearing out of time or geography.
A criticism of the first edition was rigidity of army composition – which saw you playing against exactly the same enemy army too frequently.  L2 has army lists where brigades typically have some but not a lot of compositional choice but armies have a lot of flexibility about the number and types of assembled brigades.
Lists might be an area where the lack of granularity irks some players. Troops are reasonably rigidly defined – for example all French Hussars are the same with no option to salt in an experience elite unit or raw newly-raised unit.  Here again there is the capacity with the open source points to make such adjustments but many players will expect army lists to be a set menu.
A wise gamer once suggested that players spent more time tinkering with army design than actually moving lead – what else is there to do on slow work days?
Scenarios, options, back up etc
The rules provide a number of pre-designed scenarios to play, some equal points others not, and each sets out terrain, objectives and a game turn limit.  There is other info for generic intro games or refights.
The Advanced rules include a palate of items to spice up you games, as a standard our gang is using many of them.
I suspect a traditional competition game format would be to generate a reasonably vanilla specific scenario(s) and a points system keyed to game time.
In summary these are an excellent set of rules that are easy to learn and provide an enjoyable fast-paced game.
From what we have seen they work well for club-night pick-up games and multi-player re-fights.  I suspect with a little framing of game parameters they should be good for open competitions too.
David F Brown

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Leondegrande

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Re: Good News from Sam Mustafa....Lasalle 2.0
« Antwort #44 am: 11. Februar 2021 - 19:43:19 »

Mal wahllos gesammelt was mir sehr gut gefällt:
- vereinfachte Umstände trotzdem in gute Regeln umgesetzt, deshalb wahrscheinlich sehr flüssig zu spielen
- diese Momentum-Geschichte und den Interventionen mit Abwechslung wer aktiv ist im Zug
- HQ Blatt mit Markern (General, ADC, Partisanen, Runden, Momentum, Scharfschützen)
- Modell als Baggage, da kann man die ganzen schönen Perry Wagen für hernehmen (diesen Eselwagen der Russen, die Apotheke, Schmiede oder den Versorgungswagen)
- die 9 generischen Szenarios, relativ simpel aber genau die Portion Aufgaben/Vorgaben die bei abendlichen Spielen das Salz in der Suppe sind
- das Armybuilding mit dem Army Maker
- die Aussicht das auch mal auf einem Turnier spielen zu können, ist das erste Napo System wo ich mir das vorstellen könnte
- die klar strukturierten/formulierten und bebilderten Regeln
- hat in der Summe bislang am meisten Pluspunkte aller Systeme die ich so im Blick habe, die Praxis wirds dann zeigen ob sich das auch so gut spielt
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