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[Robert E. Lee]

Hallo,

Wie angedroht hier mein Review zu Britsh Grenadier (BG).

 

Die Zugfolge sieht wie folgt aus :

Initiative Phase (simultan/s)

Command Phase

-hier werden Befehle verteilt, und umgeändert :huh:

Compulsory Phase (s)

Charge Phase

Movement Phase

-bewegungen werden ausgeführt/ disruption points (DPs) verteilt :sleeping:

Melee Phase (s)

Morale Phase (s)

Rally disruption points (s)



Grundsätzlich ist das Regelbuch eine Adaption der General de Brigarde (GdB) Regeln, wer noch fragen bezüglich der einzelnen Züge hat findet über google genug Material zu GdB u.a. ein File mit einer Übersicht über die Regeln (sprich Tabellen etc.).

Nun aber wieder zu BG, was unterscheidet BG von GdB ?

1) Das Bewegungssystem

 

Bei BG erhalten die Einheiten je nachdem welche Bewegung sie ausführen, wie schnell sie sich bewegen und durch welches Gelände sie sich bewegen \"Disruptionpoints\".

Diese Disruptionpoints simulieren quasi die Erschöpfung/Ermüdung der Einheit. Die Disruptionpoints wirken sich auf Beschusswürfe, Nahkampfwürfe und Moralwürfe negativ aus.

 

2) Diverse kleine Unterschiede

Im Detail gibt es ein paar Unterschiede die aber mMn nicht weiter ins Gewicht fallen.

 

Anmerkung zum Nahkampf :

Der Nahkampf läuft im Grunde wie bei GdB ab. Es werden 2W6 geworfen hinzu werden die zutreffenden Modifikatoren addiert. Anschließend werden mittels einer Tabelle und anhand der schießenden bzw. kämpfenden Einheit (deren Einheitenstärke) die Verluste beim Gegner ermittelt.

 

Zum Abschluss wäre noch die letzte der Besonderheit zu nennen die Bases, und zwar haben die Bases eine Größe von 3.5*5 cm . Die Modelle werden im allgemeinen zu viert auf einer Base positioniert. Nach meinen bisherigen Erfahrungen lässt sich BG aber auch ohne weiteres mit anderen Basierungen spielen.

Ich hoffe ich konnte helfen und wünsche euch noch schöne Feiertage, :thumbsup:

mfg.

Robert

*Anmerkungen zu den Bildern* : Die abgebildeten Minis sind entweder von mir oder von Lord Wilko (leider weiß ich nicht ob oder unter welchem Namen er hier rumgeistert) bemalt .

[sven]

Hallo!
Vielen Dank für die kurze Erläuterung zu BG. Leider kenne ich nicht GdB! Hört sich aber interessant an.
Sven

[Antipater]

Erstmal: Danke für die Übersicht und, nebenbei, für die Bilder der hübschen Minis. Sitze selbst gerade an den Briten.
Allerdings gilt für mich dasselbe wie für Sven: Ich kenne GdB nicht mal im Ansatz, daher könnte ich allein von Deinen Erläuterungen her nicht sagen, wie sich BG spielt. (Ich habe immerhin den \"Vorteil\", die BG-Regeln zu besitzen.) Zu einem Review gehört m.E. vor allem das persönliche Meinungsbild. Also, was hältst Du selbst von den Regeln? Wie spielt sich das Ganze? Für welche Art Spieler eignet es sich (nicht) etc. etc.?

Mir kommt BG zum Beispiel sehr langwierig vor. Es ist eine Schlachtsimulation im klassischen Sinn, wenn auch weitgehend ohne das nervige Kartenzeichnen. Die Szenarien sind von vornherein auf mehrere Stunden Spielzeit (bei guter Regelkenntnis!) angelegt. Ich habe bisher keinen Spielbericht gelesen, bei dem es nicht am Ende hieß: \"Wir hörten an dieser Stelle auf, weil wir bereits x Stunden gespielt hatten. Vermutlich hätte die Schlacht Spieler y gewonnen.\" Für nicht wenige Leute könnte so ein \"educated guess\"-Ergebnis irgendwie unbefriedigend sein. Darüber hinaus braucht man für viele Spiele Unmengen an Miniaturen und sehr große Tische, die noch dazu einiges an speziellem Gelände erfordern können. Außerdem finde ich die Basierung extrem nervig. Zwar kann man natürlich eigene Systeme verwenden, aber damit ist man wieder nur mit gleich basierten Armeen kompatibel.

Positiv aufgefallen ist mir dagegen die professionelle Aufmachung der Regeln (auch wenn ich mir hie und da noch ein paar Beispielskizzen o.ä. gewünscht hätte) und vor allem der Fokus auf Szenarien, die historische Schlachten nachstellen. Es gibt mittlerweile zwei Szenariobände, die genaue Aufstellungen der beteiligten Armeen sowie etwas Hintergrund und taktische Tipps enthalten. Hilfreich vor allem die Auflistung, welche Einheit mit wie vielen Figuren dargestellt werden sollte. Im Übrigen lassen sich diese Bücher auch als Orientierung für andere Systeme verwenden.

Giles Allison, der einigen vielleicht bereits bekannt ist, führt ein sehr sehenswertes Weblog, in dem er vornehmlich seine AWI-Armeen vorstellt. Sein bevorzugtes Spielsystem ist British Grenadier; es finden sich auch zwei, drei Spielberichte bei ihm, u.a. gegen die Perrys in ihrem heimischen Hobbykeller. :thumbup:

[Axebreaker]

I just ordered the rules for the game and I\'m waiting to recieve it.Is there a large following of players :rolleyes: ?The reason I purchased these rules was on recommendation and I love the Perry and Foundry miniatures for this period :love: .Also,I see you put the rules to theory, but have you played a few games to try it out.If you have, how did you like it :rolleyes: ?Thanks for the demonstration as it gives me an idea how it runs.

[Robert E. Lee]

Up to know I have bean able to finish about 5 smaller games (with equal forces), and I really like the game.The Disruptionspotins bring as already mentioned an very interesting effect to the game, the game feels more like a “real” battle because you have to deal the fatigue of your troops and therefore you feel morelike the “commander” .
The shot und combat system is nothing special because it is an rather usual one, similar for example to Johnny Reb (my favourite ACW rules). It takes some time handle it, honestly it can slow down the first gamesa little bit but with experience its becomes less problematic.
Finally I would recommend you to play the Scenarios, they are pretty good and I really want to play some of the bigger battles, but sadly I lack of suitable players (near me). Therefore you should lock for players (because you really need a lot of miniatures) or should buy both rebels and redcoats   .

p.s. Sometime in the future we must meet for a game, because you pursue/start many of my projects   .

[Axebreaker]

Excellent!I\'m glad to hear that.I was hoping you had played a few games.Now I\'m even more curious and I\'m looking forward to my package.As a matter of fact I took the precaution of ordering both Scenario books with the rule book.In addition I also will get some Osprey books as well.I plan on collecting a american patriot army first and see how that goes.

From reading the BG forum I noticed their basing is a little different from warhammer ECW.I\'m going to take the precaution and base my army to what warhammer might do if they make an AWI supplement.For example I\'ll base my troops on magnetic 20 x 20mm bases with 2 in front and two behind.In between I\'ll use 10 x 10mm scenic bases for a total base size of 40mm wide x 50mm deep magnetic trays.For Cavalry I\'ll do something along the same lines.As for skirmish troops I\'ll still use the 20 x 20mm magnetic bases and place them removable circular bases.This way I won\'t be trapped in one system.

Yes,we do need to get together for some games!It will probely be next year before I can play any AWI,but Fire and Fury I can play now.Me and Peter(Käptain Jack)have played the first battle of Bull Run at my house.I played the confederates and he played the Union.First game we played about half the scenario and had to stop,but it was clear the rebels were pounding the union into the ground.A month later we played the scenario again and two of my friends joined us.This was a better game with alot of drama.The union artillery and accurate shooting from the infantry sent the confederates reeling back.It was exciting in that to win you had to have a 3 to 2 margin in victory points and control of Henry Hill with no non spent enemy contesting.The confederates were fighting not to knocked off the hill.Thanks to all the troops being green the union couldn\'t captalize on their attack and move their brigades to overwhelm the confederates.Nightfall came and saved the rebels from destruction.The union achieved 3 to 2 victory points but couldn\'t take Henry hill.The game ended in a dramatic draw.

Our next game will be the 20th or 27th of September.We wanted to play Shiloh but we do not have enough miniatures.I think we\'ll just play a non historical scenario until we have built up out collection.One problem is that Peter wants to paint his mini\'s to a high standard.I feel the same way most of the time.With 25mm or larger I agree and always paint to high standard.That\'s also fine with DBA as you don\'t need to paint that many.Believe me when I say I like my figures painted to a high standard,BUT with Fire and Fury and only 1 or 2 people doing the models and needing to paint hundreds of figures and building terrain,then you will never play if you paint to a high standard.I just flat paint them and it still takes time.I\'m trying to explain that for now just flat paint the models so we can play and go back over them later at your convenience.

Of course your welcome to come anytime.I understand it\'s a long drive and that you might not like that.I do have a guest room and your welcome to use it if that\'s a problem.Otherwise perhaps we will meet at tournement sometime.

[Robert E. Lee]

If I find the time I will come, but somehow its it is rather hard in the moment (so less time so much to do :rolleyes: ). And by the way, what is about Antietam ? There has been a quite good scenario in the WGI maybe we can play it on a convention ? For example on the “famous” Hamburger Tactica...
This would also be an solution for “big battles” in general because it enables us to bring a lot of players (and miniatures) together for a game. Maybe we can organise something like that in the future.

[Axebreaker]

I know how you feel.I\'m repainting some Romens for WAB,I\'ve started a DBMM Normen army,Fire and Fury(models,Terrain),I want to do some ECW and of course AWI as well :gamer: .What\'s even more I\'ve just had a baby girl(9 months old) :pump: :phatgrin: and so I really have alot less time to paint then I use to :rolleyes: .

Antietam!Why play small battles lets just play Gettysburg instead :rolleyes: !I\'m just joking .To play Antietam would require a really large group effort.The miniatures required to play Antietam is:

Union(stands)/ Confederate(stands)

Infantry 276 /160

Cavalry 0/ 11

Artillery 30 /28

Leaders 14 /10

Average models per Infantry stand is 3 to 4 so we would need on average about 1450 figures there.take the others and you need 300 + more figures.But,thats the least of our problems :fie: .More then any other game I\'ve played,when playing a historical battle you need to be exact when making the battlefield :blackeye: .We would need to build two battlefields each one 6ft. x 6 ft.Each battlefield has to be built to scale.All the hills have to be built to scale(I use cardboard),then rivers,cornfields,woods,fences,sunken road,assorted houses,and of course a town needs to be built as well.The game would take an entire weekend to play.After Gettysburg then Antietam is probely the most complex battle to play :whistling: .I suppose I play most of these games at my house because of the preparation involved needs time .

My point is we first need to gather a group of players and pick a weekend to play other civil war battles a little less complex and work our way up to Antietam.Believe me when I say I would love to play Antietam :love: ,but for the moment I think it\'s to much.Or,do you know alot of other players and think we could do it now :whistling: ?

Your correct in saying that Tactica is a good place to feature a game like this because you can pool your resources,but first I think a few games should be played together if possible.A playing group established with a large collection of models,terrain and experience(I need little more anyways ) is needed first before we try Antietam I think.What do you think?

How large is your collection for F and F?I have about 100+ union and 80+ confederate,some cannons,cavalry,and leaders.Perhaps if your able to come and your collection is close to me in size we could play Shlioh .The terrain isn\'t very complex and the scenario looks to be alot of fun .

Speaking of Tactica I would be very interested in trying out BG if possible at the tournement :phatgrin: .I\'m pretty excited about painting these miniatures and maybe a few terrain pieces as well.Do you know of others that might be interested as well.Anyways,I\'m looking forward to a game together be it F and F or BG .

[Robert E. Lee]

Actually I thought that we \"just\" replay the actions around the dunker church, this would require less miniatures than replaying the whole battle   .
But you are right a battle like Antietam deserves and needs accurate terrain. Anything else would simply not be Antietam. But recreating the terrain around dunker church would not be such an big problem. I you want I can sent you a scan of the terrain map form the WGI Scenario. In my eyes the only “work intensive” thing will be the church itself...
The creating of an playing group is good Idea, and somehow necessary , but it is a little bit optimistic because bringing the mandatory mass of ACW players together is in my eyes rather impossible (distances :thumbdown: ).
Actually I am not owing a game specific collection. I base my miniatures on 20*20 plastic card to keep them compatible with the most systems (in my opinion a necessary thing in Germany). I have about 120 Infantry Miniatures and some officers in my collection (most of them unpainted :whistling: ) .
Personally I hope that we can at least play at the Tactica   .

[Axebreaker]

Sorry I\'m answering so late,but I have late shift this week,and I have no time in the mornings :thumbdown: .

I have question,have you played Fire and Fury before :rolleyes: ?I own the rulebook, plus both Great Eastern and Great Western Battles Scenario books.Antietam is in there.Antietam is broke down into three parts starting with The Morning Battle,The Afternoon Battle,and The Grand Battle.The first two is if you only wish to fight a part of the battle and the last is if you wish to fight the whole battle.The first two are played on 6ft. x 6ft. tables and the last is 6ft. x 12ft :blackeye: !I just fought The 1st battle of Bull Run and that\'s one of the smallest battles you can fight with F and F and that still needed a 5ft. x 6ft. table and took us about 6hrs. to fight 8| !But it was alot of fun :thumbsup: !

Just fighting around Dunkard church is to small in scale for F and F :thumbdown: .Fire and Fury is epic wargaming and starts at the brigade level and is intended to fight armies and whole battles.I think what you have in mind is better suited to Johnny Reb or Battleground Gettysburg using 25mm at the regimantal level.That sounds like fun as well ,but I don\'t have any 25mm ACW yet .

Your right in saying it will be hard to get a group going ,but we can make an event of it sometime.Just tell me a weekend that you have time and we can try and arrange a group battle :thumbup: .

As far as models are concerned I was talking about painted models only.Unpainted I could field both the Army of Northern Virgina and The Army of Potomac :whistling: .I never play historical armies unpainted.Atmosphere is as important as the playing .I know what mean about trying to be flexible with your basing.That\'s my plan for BG :thumbup: .

We will play at Tactica :phatgrin: ! It just might not be Fire and Fury.Personally I think BG is a better idea :thumbup: .At the moment it\'s what I\'m inspired to do :thumbsup: .

[Robert E. Lee]

Honestly I haven\'t played it before, but I always thought it is played mainly in 15 und in 25/28 mm. Therefore I simply thought you play it with 25mm. In 15mm I am not owning any Miniatures for the ACW (again way to less time :rolleyes: ).

The event idea sounds great  :thumbsup: , for sure I will tell when I have some time to travel down to you.

Of course I will never field a unpainted Army, okay that’s just partly true, if I tryout a new game etc. I will sometimes use unpainted models because of the well known excitement  :growup: . But in general I prefer just like you painted Armys because historical wargames simply need atmosphere (terrain + painted models and of course background).

p.s. I am looking forward for some great Battles in the future   . It may be an Idea to exchange phone( or cell) numbers for certain reasons    .

[Axebreaker]

In the F and F rulebook it states it\'s designed for 15mm,although you can upgrade to 25mm by doubling everything or reduce to 10mm and halving everything.To be honest 10mm and of course 15mm is fine,but 25mm?You would have to be insane to try 25mm :fie: !In 25mm Antietam Grand Battle Scenario would require a 12ft. x 24ft. table :blackeye: !I believe they just added 25mm for a sense of completeness in saying it\'s possible in theory only .So,I believe I\'m correct in saying F and F is only for 15mm or less.

Great!Just call when you have the time.

I\'m really excited about trying out BG AWI at Tactica :phatgrin: !

P.S.I\'ll send a PM with my number.

[Knoedelmeister]

Moinsen,
schön, die Figuren mal bemalt zu sehen!! Sehen toll aus.
MfG
Philip

[Jimo]

... hier mein Review zu Britsh Grenadier (BG). ... Bases ... Die Modelle werden im allgemeinen zu viert auf einer Base positioniert. Nach meinen bisherigen Erfahrungen lässt sich BG aber auch ohne weiteres mit anderen Basierungen spielen.

Hallo Robert,

interessante und hilfreiche Renzension! Danke! Drei Fragenbereiche dazu:

1) bin selbst im Moment kurz davor die Regeln zu kaufen (bei dem Stand des britischen Pfundes muss man zuschlagen). Nicht unbedingt wg. der Regeln selbst (außer die Sammelleidenschaft mal wieder die Oberhand gewinnen könnte) sondern wg. der beiden (meine ich) Szenario Hefte. Hast Du diese evtl. gesehen bzw. bist im Besitz von ihnen? Lassen sich die Szenarien ohne große Probleme in andere Regelsysteme übertragen bzw. sind sie als Grundlage zu gebrauchen?

2) aus Deiner Rezension habe ich den Eindruck, dass typische Btl. aus 3-5 Vierer Bases (Infanterie) bestehen. Richtig? Ein Btl. also i.a.R. aus 12-18 Figuren besteht?

3) Welcher Maßstab ist die Grundlage für BG? Vermute jedoch, dass man ohne Probleme 15, 20 oder 28mm spielen kann, oder?

[Christof]

Hi Jimo,
wenn ich auch Roberts links aus diesem thread AWI Neuling sucht Hilfe und Mitspieler richtig schlau werde, dann gibt es auch 6er Bases -die sind dann aber entsprechend breiter, daher gibt es dann 3*4= 12 oder 3*6= 18 Mann pro Einheit.
Gruss Christof