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Tom Cruise\'s Weihnachtsgeschenk an die Welt

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Axebreaker:
@Jimo

A good actor is someone who can draw you into their story and keep you involved.That is the prime defination of an actor end point.You can say everything perfect and still lack the charisma to draw people in.You need that ability and not everyone has it.The people you made fun of like Cruise,Schwarzenegger ,Stallone have it in spades.Ask how many people who know who Kenneth Branagh is.I think personally he over acted in Henry the V(hammed it up).Do you think Henry really talked and acted like that.Not very believable.I think Mel Gibson would of been better for that role.
The people your making fun of with sorry to say a typical hollywood critic elitist/snobbish attitude are one and all good at doing that(drawing people in).Schwarzenegger perhaps has one of the most famous lines in hollywood history with\"I\'ll be back\".Let\'s take Johnny Depp for example(who I like alot)and give him the same line,it would would be a joke and he could never pull off the Terminator as close to or as good as Schwarzenegger even with a perfect american accent!Could you imagine anyone else being Rocky other then Stallone(who wrote it by the way),and oh yeah lets not forget it won best picture. ;)
Tom Cruise was outstanding at portraying a hot shot pilot in Top gun and not every actor could have pulled that off as well as he did.
Tom Cruise has made some very smart choices over the years in taking roles that he can pull off with conviction and his success proves that.Who cares if he says der Fuher wrong if his overall impression works.Schwarzenegger made so many errors with english, by your ommission everyone should never have gone to anymore of his movies.But let\'s face it,he made you believe he was Conan, the Terminator,and was very funny in kindergarten cop and Total Recall was a blast.He was believable in what he did.
A bad actor is an actor that cannot keep you in your seat or make his character interesting enough for you to care.There are alot of those,but the ones you make fun of are not in that group.
There are good actors those listed above are and there are a few great actors and they are listed below.
When I think of great actors that can both act in complex ways and have the vital charisma needed,then my favorites are(modern day) Denario,Crowe,Daniel-Day-Lewis,Washington,Nicholson,Pacino,Robert Downy-Jr and these I believe to be a true genius in their trade.

Jimo:

--- Zitat von: \'Axebreaker\',index.php?page=Thread&postID=17153#post17153 ---
... You need that ability and not everyone has it.


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Just my point.


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The people you made fun of like Cruise,Schwarzenegger ,Stallone have it in spades.


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I don\'t know where I made fun of them. I made a statement that they are entertainers and aren\'t actors.


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Ask how many people who know who Kenneth Branagh is.


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That\'s actually a so-called fallacy out of ignorance. Just because many (if that\'s the case at all) people don\'t know for example who two of the best Shakespearian actors of all time were/are (Laurence Olivier and Branagh) only proves their ignorance. Simply because they might not expose themselves to real acting. IMHO people that \"know\" what real acting is, would usually know folks like Branagh. It\'s no a coincidence that he was a member of the  Royal Shakespeare Company.

I think Col. Tim Collins puts it well when he \"says in the Radio Times that, when he was serving with the SAS, they had a video of Kenneth Branagh\'s \"Henry V\" and little else to amuse themselves. \"We played it again and again.\" Well, thank God it wasn\'t \"Rambo\". A decade later, Shakespeare had so invaded, colonised and coloured Collins\' subconscious that, when called upon to say a few words to the troops on the eve of invading Iraq, he spoke in the plain, unvarnished voice of Henry V at Agincourt. With some biblical additions of his own. It was \"Cry God for Harry, England and the St James version!\" (The Guardian, 20 March 2008, by Nancy Banks-Smith).


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think personally he over acted in Henry the V(hammed it up).Do you think Henry really talked and acted like that.Not very believable.I think Mel Gibson would of been better for that role.


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I hope you\'re judging his acting on Henry V not only on the \"We few\" clip. One has to see the whole film. This then shows his masterful performance because he shows the different facets of Henry. A thing Cruise isn\'t able to do. Again you\'re appealling to a fallacy of ignorance. \"Do you believe ...\" It\'s not important what we believe how Henry spoke. What he said is important. From what we can tell and from getting as near as possible (through for example Shakespeare\'s Henry V text) how can firmly state that it\'s very possible that Henry spoke  in this manner. But even that isn\'t important because it would be/is actually be a fallacy of false cause or a non sequitur. The acting is to be judged, not if someone could have said soemthing etc.


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The people your making fun of with sorry to say a typical hollywood critic elitist/snobbish attitude are one and all good at doing that(drawing people in).


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I think you\'re getting a bit heated. On the \"making fun of\" aspect see above. I take the \"typical hollywood critic elitis/snobbish attitude\" as a compliment and badge. Never been apppraised as such but that\'s OK.


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... most famous lines in hollywood history with\"I\'ll be back\".


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I think what shows by now is that were talking about two totally different things. i\'m talking about the ability to act, you IMHO about something else. Whatever it may be.


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.. Could you imagine anyone else being Rocky other then Stallone


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Yes.


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... lets not forget it won best picture. ;)


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Which again doesn\'t prove that Stallone could/act. Here we have a fallacy of causation versus correlation, which assumes that correlation implies causation). Ayway as you state youself: best picture, not best actor.


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... Who cares if he says der Fuher wrong if his overall impression works.


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Well I do care and all people I know(are cineasts) care too, simply because this is one way to determine if someone is a good actor.


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Schwarzenegger made so many errors with english, by your ommission everyone should never have gone to anymore of his movies.


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No. Your using a logical fallacy. Schwarzenegger\'s role let\'s him speak with whatever accent he actually wants. He\'s depicting (and very fitting!) the bit daft, akward, clumsy chap. Fits. Cruise is playing a German noble, Stauffenberg. Doesn\'t fit.


--- Zitat ---
... When I think of great actors that can both act in complex ways and have the vital charisma needed,then my favorites are(modern day) Denario,Crowe,Daniel-Day-Lewis,Washington,Nicholson,Pacino,Robert Downy-Jr and these I believe to be a true genius ...


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I can fully support that statement (if the first is to be Robert De Niro). Interestingly only men ...  ;)  Maybe we can agree to disagree. Cruise would be for you a \"good actor\", the others blokes \"great actors.\" For me the above mentioned are indeed great actors too, because they can act which Cruise can\'t (well, I haven\'t seen it yet). And Cruise can \"act\" in a certain sense. But then that would be a question of definition. Watching his \"act\" at the Scientology award ceremony, party, whatever (which can be watched on YouTube) again shows him in his IMHO only, typical \"role.\" His spectrum of acting isso narrow ...it\'s not the hallmark of a great actor, IMHO not even a good actor. It makes one wonder if he really believes the crap he said during that infamous speech.

Axebreaker:
@Jimo

All you addressed were the easy ones to form a different opinion.You did not comment on my opening statement.

Almost all Sucessful actors stay in the field that they can make work more or less.Your using a very narrow lens to draw your opinions and not looking at the overall picture.For example  Branag- Shakespeare(who I like,but still think he over did it in Henry)Denario-Cop/Gangster,Lewis-serious,Depp-quirky,Schwarzenegger ,Stallone -action,Cruise-action,suspense etc.They are all smart enough to stay with what works for them.Their acting allows them to be believable in the roles they choose.Not all of them could do what the other does and pull it off well or as convincing.For example because Schwarzenegger can\'t do  Shakespeare,does not make him a bad actor,rather what makes a good actor is one who can act the roles he takes.Sometimes they make a mistake and don\'t act the character given them very well,but that dosen\'t make them a bad actor,because all of the actors we have talked about have over 90 % of the time acted the role they were given very well indeed,or we would not even be talking about them now.I think Denario is perhaps one the greatest actors we have ever had,but I don\'t think he could have pulled off Depp\'s role in Pirates of the Car. anywhere near as well,does that make him less of an actor?I think not.They all have acted for the most part the roles given them to an outstanding level,and thats why people pay to see their films just because their name is on it.

One more thing overall I\'m not a big fan Tom Cruises movies although some I do like.Stallone\'s Rambo movies I did not like at all and I only really liked the first 2 Rocky\'s,and you should see Copland where he did a very good job in a \"serious\" role.Everything said,it takes nothing away from what I said in the first two paragraph\'s.Oh yeah,of course I saw the complete Henry the V(I own it),I wouldn\'t comment on his acting if I didn\'t watch it.He\'s done alot better in other roles.

As far as Cruises new movie goes,I don\'t know if it\'s good are not,but I won\'t let any prejudice get in the way from seeing it first.His movies normally do very well,so I have to give it the benefit of the doubt.

Doc Phobos:
Oh dear! I MUST see the film. I just read somewhere that Stephen Fry will also appear in the film! Now, that is also a reason to go, even if it is just for a few minutes.

Murphy:
Hm...

... ein Hollywood-Blockbuster über den 20. Juli... Nein, danke!

... Tom Cruise als von Stauffenberg... NEIN, DANKE!!! (Ich würde nicht per se sagen, dass er ein schlechter Schauspieler ist, aber diese Konstellation ist einfach nicht mein Fall. ;) )

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